An Interview with the owner and Head Distiller of Limeburners, Cameron Syme
Which
aspects of your production methods or other factors would you say has
the greatest impact on the end quality of your whisky, i.e. the one or
two
things that you do that makes Limeburners whisky what it is?
Cameron comments - that's a tough question - we make every batch by hand, and our attention
to detail at every stage of the process (from grain selection, yeast
selection, mashing, fermentation timing, distillation, and maturation)
is what turns out Limeburners and makes it what it is. it's
not really possible to just choose two. Our mission is to make the
best whisky in the world (that's the goal - nothing like aiming high) so
we have a continuous improvement methodology where we are always looking
at the various steps to see where we can improve.
I guess perhaps if I had to say the one or two things, then I'd choose
1) the fact that our entire team share the passion and commitment to
make premium quality whisky, and 2) we make small volumes by hand
according to traditional distillation methods - not
one computer is involved in our production process.
What made you decide to distill single malt whisky and what made you choose Albany?
Cs - I love my single malt, to me it's the pinnacle of all drinks.
My family came from Scotland, and they were involved in distilling
whisky there. I thought Australia makes great wine and beer and send
that around the world, and compete at the premium
level, why don't we make a whisky - we have all of the key ingredients
here - great grain, clean water, clean environment... That was where it
all started. Why Albany - after 18 months of site selection process
looking everywhere from Perth south, it was
clear that on a number of key criteria, Albany was the best place in WA
to make single malt whisky.
Was there anything specific in the region that led you to build your distillery there?
Cs-
yes, plenty of good quality water from limestone aquifers, some of the
worlds best barley grown in the region, renewable energy from the Albany
wind
farm, a cool climate ideal for maturing whisky, and peat bogs.
Limeburners along with many Australian whiskies have no age statements
on the bottles. I believe that you said the average age of most of the
whiskies
that you produced was between 3 and 5 years old. I agree with your
comment that oftentimes there is too much emphasis given to the number
of years old that a whisky is, do you think the lack of an age statement
hurts Australian whiskies or hurts them?
CS- Age statements are an interesting thing. We have proven that
whisky does not need to be 'old' to be good. Whisky can improve with
age, but every cask will get to a point when it will be too old as well
(each cask is different, and old casks need to
be monitored to make sure they don't get too woody, otherwise the
quality diminishes). I would not release a whisky younger than 3 years,
as the youthfulness shows through and the spirit is not as rounded or
finessed. Let's also not forget that Laphroaig
quarter cask has no age statement - I haven't heard anyone criticize
that. Peated notes in whisky will diminish with age, so that would tend
towards younger peated whiskies appealing to peatophiles. Generally
people are critical of Australian whiskies as we
are not considered a traditional whisky producing nation. In reality a
number of Australian whiskies have won medals on the international
stage against much older whiskies. I think those results speak for
themselves.
Age does play a role, but there has been too much of a focus in age
(our 3 year old has prevailed in more than one blind tasting over 18
year old whiskies). I think consumers have been trained to think that a
whisky must be 8, or 12, or 18 years old to
be good, that's simply not true for Australian whiskies. Australian
whiskies are great at 3, 5 and 8 years. Whisky matures faster in
Australia and the United States than it does in Scotland. You can bet
that by the time our Australian distilleries' whiskies
are 12+ years old we we will be appreciated as the best in the world.
Are there any barriers in the Australian whisky industry that you think
are specifically "Australian" or do you think problems in the industry
tend
to be fairly common across the different countries?
CS- there are the usual barriers of costs of production. I
Australia we face additional burden as to start with some Australian
consumers have been overly critical of Australian whisky. We have had
some people criticize a whisky that won a silver medal
best in class in London. Their comments changed when they knew what it
was they were trying. That said we've also had positive support from
many people who love our whisky and people have quickly converted to
being strong supporters of Australian distilleries.
Possibly the biggest impediment is the taxation regime in
Australia. This is at one of the highest rates in the OECD, and means
the economics of producing here are much tougher than our international
competitors. Wineries and breweries in Australia all
get excise (tax) breaks - distilleries get no such break. This is a
major issue.
The price of many Australian whiskies starts at $100 and can easily
shoot up to $200+. I've experienced quite a range in quality in many
distilleries
(not Limeburners for the record) that go from the whisky being just ok
to being brilliant I need to buy this bottle now. Do you think this
lack of consistency and high price point drives many of the Aussie
whisky drinkers away from Australian whiskies to
bourbons or Scottish Single Malts?
CS - first, thanks for your comments that all Limeburners whiskies
have been good. Our commitment to quality is we will not release a
whisky if we are not 100% satisfied with the quality. We have won awards
in major international spirit shows for each
of the last 5 years, including the prestigious London IWSC, where among
other awards we've picked up 2 silver in 2011 (one best in class) and 3
silver in 2012. We do not pick 'show ponies' and submit them. We
take whatever is our current release of whisky and send it in - the
fact were winning awards for every whisky we've submitted means that any
of our whiskies would be capable of holding it's own on the
international stage.
All of the Australian producers I know are committed to producing a
quality product. I would be disappointed if anyone is releasing poor
quality whisky as reputation is hard earned and easy lost. The costs
here reflect the small scale of production,
the high capital and operating costs and the tax burden (currently at
about $75 a liter of alcohol). I also like to think we need to compare
'apples with apples' and not 'apples with oranges'. Many of our
international colleagues are producing very, very
large volumes (Jack Daniels for example produce 2000 barrels a day,
Limeburners produce 2 to 3 barrels a week. Scotland produces over 1
billion bottles of whisky a year). If you purchase a Scottish single
distillery, single cask, single malt whisky (which
is the equivalent of what most Australian producers are releasing)
there is not a great disparity in price. In economic terms, alcohol is a
price elastic good, and people will find cheaper substitutes if they
are not motivated by quality. I think that is
the main driver towards people consuming cheaper spirits. At
Limeburners, and similarly with Lark, Sullivans Cove and Bakery Hill, we
could sell more than we currently have available to sell, as we are all
recognized as being committed to producing quality
whiskies,
What does the "M" designation refer to in the bottle title?
CS - hmm, there's not rocket science to this one, the M designates M for
"malt". It's so we know what's in each cask in our bond store. Our
brandy barrels all carry the symbol "B" and our sour mash (bourbon)
carry the symbol "SM".
I've tried quite a few of your whiskies, the ones that specifically
come to mind are the M31 which was a brandy finished barrel, the M66
which was the
Riesling finished barrel and the M80 which was Muscat finished if I
recall correctly? I find the varieties of finishes very cool and am
curious if you guys have anything else really cool in the works for
Limeburners whisky? I know we covered a little bit
last night, but any chance of going into anymore depth?
CS - Nate you
certainly have good
taste - M80 was awarded a silver medal at the IWSC in London this week.
Barrel selection (referred to as "Wood policy") is very important. Yes
we do have more things in the works, including importing bourbon
barrels directly from distilleries in the
US. The whiskies you are seeing from our distillery now are the result
of 8 years of research and development of our wood policy. For the
last 3 years we've been working closely with coopers in South Australia
and at Seppelsfield, and we have access to some
amazing casks with known pedigrees. M80 for example was finished in
cask that was a bourbon barrel in the US in the 1930s, and which was
then sent to South Australia to mature fortified for the next 70 odd
years - that's amazing provenance. Yes we do have
some other lovely casks in our barrel store which are weaving their
magic. We think we've got the wood policy fairly well sorted - of
course we won't rest on our laurels and are continually working with
coopers getting them to source the very best barrels
they can find.
I've read that you use filtered rain water to cut your whisky down to
bottling strength, this is quite unusual compared to distilleries in
Scotland
or even Tasmania where local spring water sources are used - what led
to your decision to use rain water and do you think the character of
your whisky would have been different had you been able to use "local"
fresh water sources instead where the softness
or hardness or other qualities of the water may have had an impact? I
believe we covered this in the hard water vs the soft water, but
anything else that you could add would be awesome!
CS - we need soft water for product dilution. Our research with
the WA Ag department resulted in us using rain water as this is the
purest softest water we can source... And it falls out of the sky into
the distillery. One other thing to note is that
Despite what marketing departments might have us believe, many Scottish
distilleries use tap water. Only a few use 'spring' water.
What would you say to someone who were to question the
"Australian-ness" of Limeburners whisky, given the seemingly intentional
modelling on Scottish
whisky production methods, say down to the stills which were designed
to be similar to some great Scotch distillers?
We didn't want to reproduce Scottish whacky here, we wanted to make
Australian whisky, however the flavor profiles produced by the stills
is important, that's why we looked to the Scottish single malts we like
the most. We make whisky in a traditional manner
- there are a number of things that we do that are no longer done by
the Scottish industry ( for example our long fermentation periods), and
there are some developments we do that are distinctly different - for
example a cold peat smoking process. Most importantly
the wine industry use the expression 'terrior' (pronounced ter-wah)
which relates to the influence of the place where the grapes are grown
and the influence on the wine. Each vineyard is different, the same can
be said of whisky, there is no doubt to me
that we are making uniquely Australian whisky, not a Scottish replica.
Following on from the previous question, are you able to name the
distilleries in Scotland that might've influenced the still design at
Limeburners?
cs - Let's talk about that over a whisky some time (you wouldn't ask a woman her age or dress size...)
Some malt whisky fans in Australia have a difficult time getting a
hold of Limeburners whisky given its inherently limited small batch
release nature and seemingly limited distribution channels into retail
outlets - do you think there is greater demand
for your whisky than you can currently accommodate? Again we covered
this in the 30,000 bottles a month for I believe Sweden.
Yes there is great demand. We've focused on making a quality product
first, now we have that we're looking at distribution, we now use
Liquid Library in WA, and are working in the eastern states. People can
always order from our website and the whisky
will be delivered to their door... What's hard about that?
Following on from the previous question, do you think the price
point of your whisky, as with whisky from other Aussie distillers,
presents a barrier to some from experiencing your whisky - or do you see
a niche for your whisky that isn't about trying to
compete with imported and even local malt whisky counter-parts?
Yes I'm sure it may be a barrier to some. We're not trying to
compete - we can now say with some confidence that we are producing one
of the world's best whiskies.
Do you ever see a time when you might produce limited amounts of 3-5cl
sample bottles of Limeburners in order for people to experience your
whiskies?
Yes - we're working in this and hope to have a set of 3 x 100ml
bottles available within a year. This way people will be able to
Experience 3 different expressions.
We discussed the difficulty of getting Limeburners in the Eastern
States. I recall you saying that whisky drinkers in Queensland would
likely be
able to get their hands within the next 12 months or so. Are there any
specific outlets where they can go to get Limeburners? How about folks
in Sydney or Melbourne?
Sydney and Melbourne have a number of places. They're all listed
on our website. If people want that can order from us and Australia
post will deliver it to you door...
Whew! CS - phew is right. Hope my responses are what you're looking for. Cheers Cameron.
I'd like to thank not just Cameron Syme for allowing me to take up his valuable time in this interview, but also my whisky friend from Queensland, Systemdown, who helped come up with quite a few of the questions.
Thanks you two!
Slainte Mhath!
